Macchi C.200/202/205 Recon versions

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Macchi C.200/202/205 Recon versions

Post by MDriskill » Sat Jun 18, 2022 10:28 am

There is an interesting current discussion at Britmodeller re: Macchi fighters converted for reconnaissance use. Basically we are discovering that information in published references is a bit spotty!

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/ind ... -and-c202/

Does anyone here have any knowledge or details of how the various types of cameras were installed and used?

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Re: Macchi C.200/202/205 Recon versions

Post by Editor » Mon Jun 20, 2022 9:28 am

I didn't read the post in Brit Modeler but here's a drawing of the camera location and details from Maurizio's Squadron-Signal C.205V Walk Around:

Image

Stefano and I also did a C.202 recce/photo recon of Frigerio's plane MM.7712 in STRM 48007. The plane was fitted with a 30cm camera in the ventral fuselage just behind the radiator and similarly installed as the C.205V with a sliding door covering a circular opening. There are no known images of this device.

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Re: Macchi C.200/202/205 Recon versions

Post by MDriskill » Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:52 am

Thanks Vince! That is very helpful. I believe the Walk Around notes that the C.205V's vertical camera was the German-made Zeiss Rb 50/30.

Yesterday I received my copy of the new Osprey "Combat Aircraft" series book, Macchi C.202/C.205V Units in Combat. It states that the C.202 instead used the Italian-made AGR 90 planimetric camera. I was rather amazed to find this illlustrated 1938-vintage description of Italian aero cameras, including the AGR 90, here:

https://www.asprs.org/wp-content/upload ... 47-154.pdf

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Re: Macchi C.200/202/205 Recon versions

Post by Editor » Mon Jun 20, 2022 1:47 pm

Yes the C.202 used an Italian made camera.

Here's the location of the camera on the C.202 as seen in STRM 48007:

Image

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Re: Macchi C.200/202/205 Recon versions

Post by MDriskill » Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:46 am

Just a quick update on this...the Britmodeller thread has now run over 50 posts and has some very interesting stuff. A few highlights:

+ The best published information on both types of cameras is in Marizio De Terlizzi's superb Squadron "Walk Around" title on the C.205.
+ Two different classes of cameras were used: small forward-facing cine cameras fitted in the wing leading edge, and a large downward-facing planimetric camera mounted behind the pilot.
+ The C.200, 202, and 205 all had examples modified to carry the cine cameras, which could be fitted at the unit level. Interestingly, these were mostly used to film actual combat for training and propaganda purposes.
+ Some C.202 and 205 were modified to carry planimetric cameras for detailed recon work; sources conflict on the C.200. The C.202's and 205's were not factory-built, but modified at the Guidonia test center.
+ Planimetric C.202's may be limited to a few early-build aircraft used in 73 Sq and possibly others. As noted above, they used the Italian-manufactured AGR 90 camera (a fascinating 1938 description of Italian recce cameras, including that one, is here: https://www.asprs.org/wp-content/upload ... 47-154.pdf )
+ Planimetric C.205's were converted in somewhat greater numbers, and organized into a dedicated unit, the 310 Sq. They used the German-manufactured Zeiss Rb 50/30 camera.
+ installing and servicing the planimetric cameras is an interesting issue, as the Macchi fighters had no rear fuselage side access panel. But note how the rear radiator fairing on the C.202 and 205 had its top and bottom built as a single, easily removable piece: it ingeniously doubled as access for the fuel tank, pneumatic system, control linkages, etc., in the aft fuselage and under the cockpit floor of the typical fighter. Scaling off good 1/48 drawings, the resulting opening was about 520 x 670 mm - actually larger than the side panels in the Bf 109G (400 x 310 mm) or Fw 190A (575 x 430 mm).
+ This opening, together with the smaller new hatch for the camera lens, also seems ideally located to reach the big camera.

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Re: Macchi C.200/202/205 Recon versions

Post by MDriskill » Tue Jan 31, 2023 12:47 pm

I'd still love to hear any further info on details of recce Macchis! Many questions remain on the camera types used, exactly how they were mounted and serviced, and more!

As an aside, here are some speculative notes on the camera controls.

The Aero Detail volume on the Macchi fighters has these excellent detail drawings, showing differences in the lower instrument panel; note the Serie III C.205's panel has grown much taller. The large switch on the right (numbered 8, 15, and 27 in the three drawings) is for the generator; the small rectangular items below the three small dials are ammo counters for the guns:

Image


Which caused me to re-examine Mr. Di Terlizzi's photos from the C.205 Walk Around book:

Image


Assuming the drawings are correct, and comparing them to the lower instrument panel details in these photos, leads to these observations / questions:

+ There are hints the large upper photo may actually be an early C.202. Note: small lower instrument panel with camera controls beneath it; large generator switch box (red arrow) per the C.202 drawing; only two ammo counters, i.e., no wing guns (yellow arrows). Mr. Di Terlizzi labeled this same photo as being from a C.202 in his earlier Aviolibri book on that type.
+ The lower left image looks like a Serie III C.205. Note: large lower panel with camera controls above it; small generator switch box (red arrow) per the C.205 drawing; four ammo counters (yellow arrows).
+ Each photo shows a different camera control box. An Italian "OMI" one in the upper photo (for the C.202's ACR 90 camera?), a German unit in the lower photos (for the C.205's Zeiss Rb 50/30 camera?)

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Re: Macchi C.200/202/205 Recon versions

Post by Editor » Sun Feb 05, 2023 4:28 pm

Interesting discussion. I agree that's a C.202 cockpit in the top most photo, likely a mistake. I would get in touch with Maurizio (I forget his alias on this forum but I do have an old email of his) and ask him if he has the photo he intended to place there. There are rivets (easily removable) all around the rear section of the C.205V radiator and latches that connect the front and rear sections to the central part of the radiator. I don't know if the rear section of the radiator was used to gain access to the camera, its an interesting suggestion but Stefano might know.

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