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Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:48 pm

saluti
what is the difference between these 2 models ? Is the external exactly the same for both models ? i noted the 7 series squadrons such as the 151 20 group 51 wing was based at Gela Italy and not in Africa , any reference link to this subject only would be appreciated . Is the base color as per print light hazel or dark hazel ?

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:53 pm

This from Aero Detail 15 Macchi C.200/202/205 (1995)

Page 111 - Late MC.202 Serie I-III Serie IV Early Serie V:

"This model (sic) of the Folgore was built from late 1941 to early 1942.

The trop. modification, which incorporated a sand/dust filter replacing the straight supercharger air intake, became standard.

Other changes included an enlarged oil cooler, a small cockpit cooling air intake below the windscreen on the left side, and other internal sand/dust countermeasures for the Mediterranean & North African theatre. later, a very few Folgores of this model (sic) were retrofitted to carry to wing-mounted Breda-SAFAT 7.7 mm machine guns.

The Piaggio P.1001 three-blade constant speed metal propeller (diameter 3.050m) was the Folgore's standard, as it was on the MC.200."

Page 112 - Late MC.202 Serie V Serie VI-X Early Serie XI:

"Built throughout 1942, the external changes to this model (sic) were the discontinuous installation of two wing-mounted Breda-SAFAT 7.7mm MGs (500 rounds per gun) and the installation of a bulletproof windscreen. Those examples without the two wing MGs had a plate covering the gun ports on the leading edges of the wings. Also additional armor plate to protect the pilot's back (right behind the seat) and a rear-view mirror on the front canopy were also fitted. The venture tube was still located on the underside.

From mid-1942 the MC.202 was equipped with a new fixed tail wheel designated the 'D' type and the trop. modification was standard.

A small number of MC.202s were modified in the field to photo-reconnaissance versions equipped with cameras fitted to the leading edges of the wings, in the same way as the MC.200.

Initially the Folgore was powered by a German-built DB601A-1, but later, the Alfa Romeo-built license production version (the R.A.1000 R.C.41-1 Monsone "Monsoon") became standard.

Perhaps for technical reasons, an additional small bulge (aligned with the previous bulge) appeared on each side of the upper nose in the Italian-powered version."

Nocciola Chiaro is translated as "Light Hazel", am surmising weathered paint would get lighter so establishing the "Light Hazel" shade to me is important insofar as depicting weathered shades.

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:32 pm

Here is the 3 series ready for upload from my ACEs series , the 84'th squadron based at Fuka Egypt . Basically its the Italian light hazel FS 30219 . I used a much lighter Hazel earlier for my 3 series Lybia and Egypt .as you can see in the G 50 thread . What is your opinion on the colors used here ? thank you for the extensive info on both models . the skin therefore should fit both aircraft models with the doubt on wether the squadron did transition to 7's before mid 1943 . generally when describing a pilots career on the internet they dont go deep enough to explain details of the aircraft model he flew , so you just read for example he flew 202 and thats all you get until they move onto 205 in some cases but i never see 202 7 or 12 mentioned anywhere . Note there is no camo work on the lower side front and back that is because for some technical reason beyond my control that section will warp and distort any patern applied to the area .

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:40 pm

Nice work. The Wing Fasci Markings top & bottom should be black outline only unless you'd found photographic evidence of black on white, unusual on C.202s for sure!

Fuselage undersides typically were painted Grigio Azzurro Chiaro (GAC), a narrow band about the width of the forward Oil Radiator extending from spinner hub to between the wheel wells and from the Engine Coolant Radiator to the Tail Landing Gear Fairing about the width of the radiator housing tapering in size to about that of the gear fairing at least on AerMacchi factory C.202s, GAC on Breda factory C.202s extended up to the tail planes and engine exhausts.

Nothing has been more vexing to me regarding C.202 camouflage finishes than GAC fuselage application, i.e. common or not so. Extremely few wartime photos I've seen show underside C.202 fuselage camouflage detail and even then not clearly, only wished wartime photographers had taken a few showing the undersides!

For decades I'd "wrapped" topside camo around C.202 model fuselages but quit doing so after getting the Aero Detail 15 book showing the Italian Air Force Museum's C.200, 202, 205 fuselage undersides painted GAC despite the U.S. National Air & Space Museum's C.202 fuselage camo being fully wrapped-around. I saw this airplane in April 1982, magnificent restoration though now believe not wholly accurate insofar as camouflage coloration.

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:09 pm

ok i think i understood you , i'll post the changes for you to check . By the way i am retired in thailand so any time gaps in replies will be due to time difference with your location . I will make the changes to the Roundel , how do you decide wether an image depicts the correct roundel background white or transparent ? Did they have self sealing tanks ? i read many suffered leg burns before ejecting .

is this now correct

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:42 am

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:49 am

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:26 am

amin123 wrote:

ok i think i understood you , i'll post the changes for you to check . By the way i am retired in thailand so any time gaps in replies will be due to time difference with your location . I will make the changes to the Roundel , how do you decide wether an image depicts the correct roundel background white or transparent ? Did they have self sealing tanks ? i read many suffered leg burns before ejecting...is this now correct

Much better. Grigio Azzurro Chiaro (GAC) was painted over the Oil Radiator underside; GAC extended somewhat semi-circular from rear of the Oil Radiator to about where the Landing Gear Door front seam is. Note also that top camouflage wrapped around parallel to each Main Wing leading edge, tapering down along the semi-circular wing tips to the ailerons, number of wartime photos illustrates this. The rear tail planes also were wrapped but how you'd illustrated that looks OK to me.

On every photo I've seen of Macchi C.202s over the last 55 years top Main Wing Fasci markings were black outline. Hopefully there's in-print research explaining why otherwise am surmising AerMacchi specified black outline Fasci markings in their C.202 painting instructions for themselves & contractors which am surmising also became a de facto standard for repair depot camouflage repaints.

Underside Fasci markings largely were black outline though first production AerMacchi C.202's painted in "Poached/Fried Egg" three-color Mimeticos had black reverse Fasci markings. There are several artist renderings of these on C.202s though off hand can't remember if I've seen wartime photos of such.

The Aero Detail 15 Macchi C.200/202/205 (1995) book has been my go-to reference regarding these aircraft for decades, used copies are still available for sale on Amazon, eBay et. al. vendors but are expensive, nevertheless I'd buy it along with the Squadron & Profile references (latter is ancient but still useable).

All articles I've read going back to the 1960s say Macchi C.202s had self-sealing fuel tanks.

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:56 am

1) GAC covers the oil radiator below the ccwling .
2) Camo top wing continues round the front edge .My 202's from before are all like that .
3) Noted your comments on the roundels for the 202 series .
4) I will look for the books you mention .
will do the upgrade tomorrow and post results .

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:10 am

final touch ups

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:02 am

Just add GAC below the Oil Radiator and you've got it.

Top Camouflage typically wrapped around the wing tips tapering down to the Ailerons but what you've done is OK.

I'd blabbed about extending GAC wider between the Oil Cooler rear and Landing Gear Doors semi-circularly. Aero Detail 15 on page 27, Plate 34 clearly shows this for the Italian Air Force Museum's C.202 but I've not seen wartime photos depicting this:

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:09 am

here is Gorini's aircraft in Tunis ,