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Reggiane 2000 camouflage and colours
Anton
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Where there any standard camouflages used on the Reggiane 2000?
According to my sources where the Reggiane 2000 delivered to sweden painted in these coluors (but in different camouflages):

Giallo Mimetico 3
Verde Mimetico 2
Marronne Mimetico 1
Grigio Mimetico
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Stefano
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The only known colour photo of a Regia Aeronautica RE 2000 shows a pattern with (it seems, as the aircraft had been shot by frontside) Verde Mimetico 2 and Marrone Mimetico 1 spots over Giallo Mimetico 4 (or alternatively Giallo Mimetico 3) background, with undersides in a grey lighter than Grigio Mimetico, possibly yet Grigio Azzurro Chiaro. All those colours are listed for Reggiane in CMPR book. It is known that Reggiane sold the 2000s to Sweden with the standard RA camo. However, my close friend Håkan Gustavsson, with the help of Mikael Forslund, told me that Italian paints chipped away under Northern bad & cold weather, so the Swedish overpainted the aircraft with commercial paints that were similar to them. The RE 2000 (J 20) exposed in the Swedish Air Force Museum had probably been treated this way. I've never seen it directly, and, as far as I know, nobody compared its colours with standard chips. Photo colours I've seen could have been altered by artificial or flash light, but it seems the green is light or bright, like Verde Mimetico 1 or 53192, the brown is reddish like Marrone Mimetico 2, but the yellow is paler and more greyish than Giallo Mimetico 3 or 4, probably a sand colour (FS 33303) that seems to have been widely used by RA. Undersides seems to be in the usual light grey. The book Caccia & Assalto vol. 2 shows a profile close to this pattern, indicating Verde Mimetico 1, Marrone Mimetico 2 and Giallo Mimetico 3.
To add confusion, I had from Gustavsson and Forslund a couple of pages from a Swedish magazine, according to which the colours were Verde Mimetico 2, Marrone Mimetico 1 and Giallo Mimetico 3, as you state. Those hues are close to the colour photo as above.

That's all I can say about the RE 2000 mottle camo. I hope that some Swedish enthusiast could examinate that aircraft and told us his opinion.

Stefano
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Anton
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Do you mean this picture?

377 Squadriglia, ? Sezione

The J20 at the Air Force Museum was a instruction airplane, hence the ""see through" aeras of the fuselage. Sadly he factory paint has been touched up by the museum. But i think some areas stil have the factory paint.
http://www.tantopergioco.it/nggallery/page-64/album-2/gallery-3/

Here is a wartime pic. of some J20:

(click on the image for larger version)
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Stefano
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Yes, it is (by the way, the black cowling identified the 1ª Sezione), and here are details of colour areas:



We have two sources and some interpretations about Reggiane colour hues:

CMPR-GAVS-GMT book:
Verde Mim 2
Marrone Mim 1 or 2
Giallo Mim 3 or 4
Grigio Mim
It’s not known how the Authors stated these colours: official documents? Unknown relics? Factory models?

Unknown Swedish model magazine (courtesy of Håkan Gustavsson and Mikael Forslund):
Verde Mim 2
Marrone Mim 1
Giallo Mim 3
Grigio Mim
I wonder, did the Authors compare the above list with actual aircraft? The text had been trimmed and I can't read Swedish.




Here are some interpretations:

CMPR-GAVS-GMT book (1994): possibly, unidentified Giallo spots over Verde background

Maurizio Di Terlizzi, Reggiane RE 2000 Falco, Héja, J.20, Aviolibri Special no. 6, Rome 2002:
Verde Mim 3
Bruno Mim
Giallo Mim 4
Grigio Azzurro Chiaro 1

Waldis-De Bortoli-Brioschi, Regia Aeronautica – Caccia & Assalto vol. II, La Bancarella Aeronautica, Turin 2003:
“Probably” (based on Swedish museum aircraft?)
Verde Mim 1
Marrone Mim 2
Giallo Mim 3
Grigio Mim

Waldis-De Bortoli-Brioschi, Caccia Reggiane, Ali e Colori no. 6, La Bancarella Aeronautica, Turin 2005:
Verde Mim 2
Marrone Mim 2
Giallo Mim 3
Grigio Mim

Now we can draw some discussion on those data.
Very interesting, despite of poor quality, is the original colour photo of Swedish Reggianes. The yellow bolt indicates it had been shot when the aircraft were new. The camo pattern and colours match quite well with the photo as above. Surely, in both images the brown is not reddish, and the green is not light. I think we can exclude Verde Mim 1 and Marrone Mim 2 as original Reggiane colours. The grey is light, and it seems devoid of blue component. Hence, the medium-tone Grigio Mim (as seen for instance in CANT Z.1007s) is unlikely. It is known that FS36307, later Grigio Azzurro Chiaro 1, had been used before 1941, also for interiors. Vitocharts suggests the use of a light blue-grey (slightly lighter than FS35414) for Macchi and Reggiane undersides before 1941; while it has been evidenced for MC.200s with C8 scheme, the images as above exclude it for RE.2000.
By considering many factors as colour sensitivity and time degradation of original film, press technique, scanner and monitor variations, it’s difficult to determinate the exact hue of Verde (#2 has a hint of blue, #3 is rather on the yellow side), Marrone (#1 is more on the green side, Bruno Mim on the red side) and Giallo (#3 is a rich, dark yellow, #4 is brownish). Possibly, a Photoshop correction based on known hues (i.e. Swedish insignia) could help. Colour differences are however little, and hard to detect, without a comparison, once your model is set on the shelf. Also, in the last years some more paints had been discovered, other than CMPR ones. For instance there’s the Sabbia (sand) as in my previous post, or the Verde bandiera (flag green, between FS14062 and 14110) also used for camouflage.
Looking again at my Wings of Italy, with the considerations as above, I’d paint my model with Verde Mim 3, Marrone Mim 1, Giallo Mim 4 and Grigio Azzurro Chiaro 1. Of course, it’s a personal opinion based only on my impressions.
A last word on museum’s Reggiane. It surely had been overpainted, but not since at least thirty years. This is a picture of 2340 by Nicola Malizia’s Il Reggiane 220 – Il brutto anatroccolo della Regia, published in 1978:



The pattern camo is identical to today’s aircraft.
What's your opinion?

Stefano
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Anton
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I tried to correct the colours on the the Picture i posted earlier. The picture and the pages you posted are from the bok "Kronmärkt" by Leif Hellström & Leif Fredin.



I made a colourtable of the Serie Mimetica 1938-1941 colours, based on the FS equivialents.


I also found some photos of the preserved J 20 before repaint:










And here are som pictures when it has been repainted:









Maybe factory paint on the canopy section?


Underside of wing painted in "Swedish blue-gray" but the wheel well looks like its Azzurro Chiaro 1??


My suggestion would be (Max Mayer paints?):
Giallo Mimetico 4 (or 1??)
Verde Mimetico 2
Marrone Mimetico 1 or 53193
Grigio Azzuro variant (http://www.gmpat.it/images/colori%20regia/foto%2012_grande.jpg)

Primer: Verde Prato Anticorrosione
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Stefano
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I try to answer you by each point:

1- The corrected photo now shows a bit more reddish Marrone, while the Giallo is too barely visible to make a judgement.

2- Of course original RA colours don’t always match 100% FS colours. Also, comparing them with electronic colours may be risky: the Giallo Mim 1 of your list, seen in my monitor, appears like a flesh colour.

3- All but 4th and 5th colour images in the serie represents, I believe, the aircraft as is actually exposed. The two remaining show a different pattern, but this no means it was in the original RA paints.

4- I wonder if the reddish brown spot at top of headrest strut is rust or camo paint, and if latter, Italian or Swedish? The headrest of “53” is grey…
Probably, the headrest was not in Verde Prato Anticorrosione (anti-corrosion lawn green). At time, all RA aircraft had the primer covered by light grey paint. Only towards the end of the war some factories (and not all) left uncovered the primer in order to spare time & money. Perhaps you’ll find it by scratching some interior struts (but I’m doubtful that museum Security can allow you to do this… ). VPA had been used for some particulars, like rudder strut of 2000 and ammo boxes of 2001. General interior primer for Reggiane aircraft was FS34227.

5- Yes, wheel well appears to be painted Italian grey compatible with Grigio Azzurro Chiaro 1, or less probably to Grigio Mim lightened by flash.

6- Giallo Mim 1 is very pale also in b/w photos, perhaps #4 is better, Verde Mim 2 is good, according with “53” image. Judging by the same photo, Marrone Mim 53193 could be a good alternative for Swedish “53”, while Marrone Mim 1 matches better with RA aircraft. You should keep in mind that, often, Italian factories bought paints from several producers, and applied them according to the availability of each batch: aircraft of the same Serie could have been painted with different colours.
The Grigio Azzurro variant you mean is the same as I told in my previous post. It had been positively identified for undersides of Macchi-built MC.200 in C8 scheme, but there is no evidence, until now, for Reggiane fighters. It’s a pale blue almost identical to RLM 78 (don’t forget that Luftwaffe camouflaged its aircraft with Italian paints, once it arrived in North Africa). Possibly, it could have been used for undersides of catapultable RE.2000 MM 8281, as witnesses stated it was entirely light blue (by the way, the same Vitocharts suggests FS35240 for its uppersides). Surely that GA variant was not present in RA colour photo, nor in SF one, nor in surviving ‘2000 wheel wells. I stay for Grigio Azzurro Chiaro 1.

Interesting discussion indeed.
Stefano
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Anton
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I found some more pictures!! Very Happy Picture 1 and 2 are from the 1950ies!






1 - Yes, but it still only my interpretation of the correct colours. I can try to do a better scan of this picture.

2 - Is the Giallo Mim 1 more cream yellow or more like Humbrol 121? I made the table just to easier refer to the colurs myself.

3 - I realised that. It must have been repainted in the end of the 70ies or early 80ies.

4 - I don't know if this aircraft was in service since it was an instructional aircraft. I try to find information about this. If so, the paint probably dind't chip as much as on the J 20 in service.

5 - I can look for more pictures of the wheel wells of the preserved J 20!

6 - I agree. Is it true that the vitocharts are based on the Humbrol Enamels?

Recently the museum at former F10 wing recieved a tail section of a J20 recovered from a shooting range in the 90ies. This tail section have probably been painted with the VPA primer! I wait to post these pic and let the author of the photos have a chance to post them here. I notified him about this discussion.
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Stefano
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That’s OK! Latter images shows that camo pattern is much more similar to RA and Hungarian 2000s. The following photo is from Di Terlizzi’s Reggiane RE 2000 Falco, Héja, J.20, IBN Aviolibri Special no. 6:



Chipping suggests that paints were probably original. Colours are most likely Giallo Mim 4 (that’s a pale brown, while #3 is a true yellow), Verde Mim 2 and Marrone Mim 2, or better Vitocharts’ Colore 10 (between FS30109 and 30111). However, Marrone in RA colour photo is surely not #2 (see above), and it is possible than export aircraft were painted in a different way. About Vitocharts, it can’t helps us, as sadly it has a text that’s somewhat incomplete and confused. Here is it:

The very first air war action, in the Italian-Turkish War, had as protagonist Tenente Giulio Gavotti. We can say that he had no need to camouflage his aircraft in that, having the enemy no air force, there was no need to hide it. Yet the scheme was effective, for the yellow-varnished fabric had the same colour of the sand which was flown over.
From that day, the sole varnishes used were that same yellow and silvered aluminium, which were applied not for aesthetical reasons, but to strenghten and protect the fabric from weather’s wear.
The Italian factories found themselves unprepared to the duty that WWI compelled them, and mainly built under license aircraft projected aboard. It was a merit of Pomilio brothers in Turin and Eng. Gianni Caproni if Italy started to produce wholly inland projected aircraft. Later came the Ansaldo, supported by Ministry of War and DTA.
In France, the problem of the camouflage on ground had been solved since 1915, by applying large bands of ochre (25), brown (26), green (20), oxide red (38) and grey (37). We adopted these colours by acquiescence to our ally, but we were far to need them, for instance over the Karst dolinas. So, other than the “French” scheme, the Pomilio started to apply two more patterns: one with green (20) spots on yellowish fabric (16), and the other with the same green (20), and sometimes (8) or (9), on grey-green (13). The Caproni and Ansaldo adopted them later, while Caproni used for its night bombers the brown (23) and the black (colore 12), and also a very dark blue close to (colore 3), and for day bombers the fabric varnish (23), which became (25) when weary and then, as we can still see in museums, a brown similar to (22) or (28), always gloss. The Ansaldo SVA had plain aluminium and brass parts with [the fuselage of] varnished wood, like a guitar case.
With the birth of Regia Aeronautica, on 28th March 1923, the heritage of wings and men left by the War reorganized again in a great air force that astonished the world during the peace, only to desperately sacrifice itself in World War Two.
[In this period between the wars] There were other colours: the usual varnished fabric and aluminium (11) or (12), the sky-blue of SANA and the crimson, ivory and Royal dark blue of Ala Littoria, other than the dark garnet red of the seaplanes and the “race” red [of the Schneider Trophy or Istres-Damascus-Paris aircraft].
During the Ethiopian campaign the only particular scheme was gloss fabric with large diagonal red bands on top wings uppersurfaces, to make easier the rescue of fallen aircraft. The same bands, on white or aluminium background, were to be used during WWII on sea rescue aircraft. These bands, however, were in use since 1919.
In 1932 the Caproni, solicited by foreign costumers, particularly from South America, studied various finishes for the different duties: longitudinal stripes of yellow (19) and ochre (25) for transport Ca. 111s, bands of (13) and (24) for bomber/recon aircraft, (29) and (11) for the fighters, (20) and (26) for night duties.
In April 1936, the Ministero dell’Aeronautica ordered to all aircraft factories to apply a scheme with large oblique bands. Each factory developed an own interpretation of the rule. Shortly, we had: FIAT BR 20: grey, (16), (26), (20), black; FIAT G 50: (25), (20), (22); FIAT CR 32: (9), (20), (25), (30); SIAI: grey, (colore 9) or (20), (colore 10), (19) and often (38) and (21) for the S 81; IMAM: (25), (20), (colore 9), (21), (28); CRDA: (13), (19), (20), (28); Breda: (25), (14), (38), (colore 9); Caproni: (colore 9), (38), (25), (20).
These colours were applied rather freely, but the band pattern scheme, which we will give in a separate plate, was set by Authorities.
In the Spanish War were experimented other camo solutions, to better match the war necessities, basing on various solutions adopted for foreign customs aircraft.
So we had three types of camo pattern: yellow (16) background and green (9) spots, called “Scheme A” or “Spring”. Green (13) background with green (colore 9) spots, called “Scheme B” or “summery/autumnal”. Green (13) background with green (colore 9) and burnt Sienna/reddish brown (colore 10) spots, called “Scheme C” or “autumnal/wintry”. The FIAT, as usual, derogated from the orders by adopting for its CR 32 a umber (30) background with green (20) spots. FIAT, also, [in this period] adopted for its BR 20s sold to Japan a scheme with three browns: (21), (colore 10) or (38), and (26).
Until here, we freely used the references for the hues adopted [after Tavola 10] from 1941
[(colore #)] when they matched similar pigments, even though it’s obvious that they could not be so named before this date.
So we don’t mention the publication dates of each ordinance, but to the period of the actual use. In facts, since all the studies were aiming to a high level of efficiency in the hypothesis of a war, at the beginning of the hostilities (June 1940) the aircraft were mainly camouflaged with Tipo A’s yellow and green and in a lesser number with Tipo B (mostly S. 79s, CZ. 1007s and MC. 200s); with the urgence to provide to Corpo Aereo Italiano
[CAI] on the Channel aircraft suitably camouflaged, it became necessary to paint the G. 50s, CR. 42s and BR. 20s with the wintry scheme. This was the last time that these patterns were organically used.
From the beginning of 1941, indeed, Authorities tended to use various shades of green, and at the end of that same year the seasonal criteria was abolished in favour to a close adherence to tactic needings. So, the basic colour became the Nocciola Chiaro (light hazelnut – colore 4 of Tavola 10), that in Africa became an ochre-similar hue
[(10)] (also called “mustard” or “sand”). On this base it had been painted several types of green and sometimes Bruno (brown - colore 10). The Verde Oliva Scuro (dark olive green – colore 2) became more and more used from the following year and, after the leaving of Lybia, the brown was replaced by the grey, perhaps to imitate the German pattern.
We need to say that this table is lacking the green of Macchi MC 200s, as it was not official and it was obtained by mixing old stocks of green (14) and the new (colore 2). The seaplanes had Grigio Azzurro Scuro (dark blue grey - colore 3) from 1941, while the Avorio (ivory – colore 5) was used in the colonies or on training aircraft; the latter had also the Bianco Neve (snow white - colore 6), the fabric yellow (23), which became dark yellow, the blue (24) and the blue (29) (SAIMAN aircraft).
We will give the graphic pattern for each scheme in another booklet, since this one deals exclusively of chromatic matter. About the factories, we can say that, from the beginning of the conflict, the paints used were the following: Breda (8) or (14) with (25) or (10) and (22); Caproni (5), (25) with (8) and/or (14); Reggiane 2000 (8); Reggiane 2000 O.R. [ship catapult-launched] (29); Reggiane 2001 (colore 2) or (8) or overall (colore 12); Reggiane 2005 (colore 2); SIAI (14) and (22) or (28); FIAT CR. 32 (25) and (14); FIAT CR. 42 (see above the CAI) (10) with (20) and/or (9), or overall (colore 12); FIAT G. 50 in Greece (8), in North Africa (colore 4), (20) and (22) –for CAI see above-; FIAT BR. 20 -see above the CAI and moreover (15) with spots (26)-, and (25). Towards the end of the war: FIAT G. 50 (25) and (8); FIAT G. 55 (9) and (20); FIAT CR. 42 (25) and (8); FIAT G. 12 (colore 2), (8) and experimental infra-red paints (colore 2), (colore 3) and (9); FIAT BR. 20 and BR. 20bis, R.23 (8); from 1942 SIAI torpedo-bombers S. 79 and S. 84 (colore 2) and (9), sometimes with front parts in (colore 1) or (37). Rescue seaplanes in (colore 6) with red crosses, and sometimes (colore 11) with red bands; CANT Z. 1007 in CAI (7) and (9), in Greece (7) and (8), in the Aegean and homeland (16), (8) and (9); IMAM (15), (29), and (21) or (22) with (16) and (8) or (20); Piaggio P. 108 (9) and (16); all transport aircraft (16) and (20); S. 73, G. 12 and S. 81 in Lybia (10), (20) and (22), in Russia (20) and (8); Macchi MC. 200 (39) or (8) and (20), (colore 4) and (14), (colore 4) and (8); Macchi MC. 202 (colore 4) or (22) or (10) with (8); Macchi MC. 205 (colore 4) and (8), or grey with (8) or (14). All the aircraft over the sea had (colore 3), and night fighters (colore 12).
Undersurfaces were at the beginning painted aluminium (11), and from 1938 (18) or (24). SIAI, until late 1941, used a dull aluminium (12), sometimes also on engine cowlings; these were in all aircraft painted white (colore 6), then yellow (colore 7) as were fuselage or wings insignia, according to the various theatre of operations. Then, they passed to (colore 1), or (colore 7), or rarely to (29).
At last, in 1942 SIAI experimented for its S. 84 a wrapping bands camo of (colore 3), (9) and (colore 12)

© “VITOCHARTS” – 1977


I’m working at an article of comparison between Vito and CMPR chips, and I hope to publish it in STORMO! in a short time.
Here is the colour list sheet attached to the Vitocharts:



As for Giallo Mim 1, it’s more yellow than Humbrol 121, rather closer to Humbrol 7 (Light Buff). FS reference is 33594. Lifecolor DR006 is sharp. CMPR suggests the following Humbrol mix: 15 parts of 74 (HB.16) + 11 parts of 34 + 2 parts of 63 (HM.2).
Let’s wait the rudder images, they’ll be interesting even though they add nothing new.

Stefano
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Anton
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Here are the pics of the tail section The author said he's going to try to take some beter photos.





I have this book in Swedish: "J 20, one of our Italian fighters", 63pages. Lots of b/w photos. I can scan som interesting photos of different paint schemes.
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Stefano
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That's a good shot! Those images are excellent. Now the question is: did the Swedish personnel remove the original paint before overpainting the aircraft? If yes, the paint could be either Italian or Swedish, and only a reconstruction of the story of this aircraft could solve the problem (i.e., had the aircraft been damaged shortly after its delivery or had it a long service?).
If not, the paint should be the original Italian, as there are no different layers of paint.
The bright green is surely the Verde Prato Anticorrosione primer.
However, all those colour worth to be matched with standard chips, as FSC, BSC, RAL, Methuen or Pantone. Could your friend kindly do it?

Stefano
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Anton
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It is the tailsection from 2305 (swedish serial number), 352 (Italian serial number).
It was delivered 1942-03-24 and in service from 1942-04-10.
2305 had to make an emergency landing due to bad weather and low fuel 1943-03-06.
So its probably not repainted and the italian serial nuber is still visible!

The central wing fueltank burst and the aircraft caught fire. The front section from the sliding canopy and forward (excluding the wings) was destroyed in the fire.
The colours are most probably faded from the elements since the tailsection has been on the shooting range for many many years.
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Stefano
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If so, the colours should be the original Italian. and that's an excellent finding. Until now, no original Reggiane paint specimen of early war period had been discovered! As for the paints fading, it seems that the relic layed on ground on starboard side for long time. Weather removed the paint until bare metal on exposed parts, but ground protected the covered side from elements. The discovering of buried WWII aircraft in Italy shows that paints were well preserved when within ground. I've seen a specimen from a MC.205 buried for 60 years: the Nocciola Chiaro 4 is identical to Tavola 10 official chart. See also colour images from buried relics in D'Amico-Valentini's Camouflage and Markings of ANR. In our relic, the Giallo Mimetico had an additional protection by the black paint of serial number. The dark green spot and the reddish brown seem no faded. I think those colours are close to original hues. Knowing their match would be very important for Reggiane's (and RA) paints knowledge.

Stefano
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Hungarian Re.2000 colours
Dénes
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I am currently working with my co-author on a book on Hungarian fighter aircraft, between 1930-1945. Obviously, the Re.2000 Héja is also included.

My artist, who did a painstaking job in reconstructing the profiles, painted two versions, based on two different interpretation of the Italian colours.

Version 1:


Version 2:


I'd appreciate your input and "educated guess" on which profile is more accurate regarding colours (particularly green).

Any other comments on the accuracy of the profile (which was started from scratch, based mainly on photos) would be welcome.

Thank you, in advance,

Dénes
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D520
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hello Denés. First they are first rate profiles, but sincerely i do not see that much differences between the two greens used by your friend. For my models I use Gunze H-302 and it is a very close match for verde Mimetico 2 as the Re-2000 were painted in the Continentale scheme. But to answer your question, profile n°2 has my preference. best regards, Jean.
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Will
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Hi Dénes,

There is an article on " L'étrange mort du vice-régent de Hongire" by Alexandre Thers in the french review Aerojournal n° 27 of this month (2012 02). On the picture of the fighters Hèja of vice-regent lieutnant Horty we can see than the backs of the wasp emblem was darker than the cross and may be light blue.
This plane was in the russian operating theatre in 1942 and he he could have yellow stripes on the underside of its wing tips, the marks of german allied on this operting theatre.

Your profile are very faithful to the photo, it's a superb art work.

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Reggiane 2000 camouflage and colours
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