STORMO! Forum Index


STORMO! Forum Index

Reply to topic
88jimmeyer
Comandante di Squadriglia
Comandante di Squadriglia

Joined: 25 Feb 2009
Posts: 14
Reply with quote
Vince,

Good job, thanks. That makes more sence then how I put it. I just got to excited.
View user's profileSend private messageFind all posts by 88jimmeyer
Stefano
Generale di Brigata Aerea
Generale di Brigata Aerea

Joined: 12 Nov 2006
Posts: 165
Location: Padua, Italy
Reply with quote
This is the translation on the War Bulletin I told you:

SUPERAEREO WAR BULLETIN NO. 947

During the night our formations attacked the harbour of Bona, and the harbour and the airport of Bougie.
In Tunisia, on the day of 14th, our fighters intercepted a formation of enemy bombers escorted by several fighters, and shot down a twin-engined Lockheed
[‘Locked’ in original text!] P.38.
On 15th, several enemy trucks had been strafed behind the front.
In North Africa, a heavily escorted bomber formation had been attacked by our fighters. In the following fight, a Spitfire has been surely shot down, another probable, two twin-engined and a Spitfire surely damaged.
Another formation of our fighters attacked the bombers, shooting down one and damaging seven.
Fighter-bombers efficaciously bombed and strafed enemy trucks and batteries.
During the operations of the day
[i.e. the 15th], two of our aircraft didn’t return.

Signed: Gen. Fougier


I had it courtesy of Michele Palermo, via Ludovico Slongo. Those researchers are highly qualified, having written a detailed chronology on North Africa's first duty tour (1941-42) of 1° Stormo with the brand new Macchi MC.202s, that's going to be published (Ali d'Africa, IBN, Italian/English text).
As told, 1943 unit diaries, where claims and losses were recorded, had been lost. However, it seems that two Italian aircraft had been lost, but the following day. So there is no confirmation that Maj Ruddel soon avenged his pilot.
Vince is right. Personal logbooks were updated by the same pilots. If one was KIA or MIA, the Squadriglia CO signed on that day "Il pilota non ha fatto ritorno alla base" (The pilot didn't return at base).
Ten. Cesare Panizza, as far as I know, survived the war, as he is not listed among lost personnel. Anyhow he didn't join ANR, so he served in ICAF, or simply refused to fight again at all!

Stefano
View user's profileSend private messageSend e-mailFind all posts by Stefano
Editor
Site Admin
Site Admin

Joined: 24 Jul 2003
Posts: 1864
Location: Calgary, AB, CANADA
Reply with quote
Ciao Stefano,
Jim has sent in the Mission Report for 71st FS 14/03/43 and I'll post it later on this evening. It says that Major Rudell fired one burst at the plane that shot down the P.38 and further, the results were not observed. It says nothing about a shot down Me.109/C.202 other than a scribble that seems to have been added-on (written short-hand) sometime later and can not be judged to be reliable evidence of a supposed shot-down enemy aircraft. It would have been useful to know if the enemy fighter that had shot-down the P.38 had been shot down in turn since we could then pin-point the planes involved. However from this mission report and the mission report of Fougier we can say with some degree of certainity that 81a Sq. 6° Gruppo clashed with the planes of 71st FS on 14/03/43. As you will see from 71st FS Mission Report, there is nothing there that suggests that the Me.109/C.202s mentioned in 71st FS Misssion Report were not those of 81a Sq. 6° Gruppo.

_________________
Vince Tassone
View user's profileSend private messageSend e-mailVisit poster's websiteFind all posts by Editor
Editor
Site Admin
Site Admin

Joined: 24 Jul 2003
Posts: 1864
Location: Calgary, AB, CANADA
Reply with quote

_________________
Vince Tassone
View user's profileSend private messageSend e-mailVisit poster's websiteFind all posts by Editor
Capitano
Generale di Brigata Aerea
Generale di Brigata Aerea

Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Posts: 278
Location: Just far enough away from Chicago.
Reply with quote
Great topic. Interesting reading and very informative.
View user's profileSend private messageFind all posts by Capitano
88jimmeyer
Comandante di Squadriglia
Comandante di Squadriglia

Joined: 25 Feb 2009
Posts: 14
Reply with quote
This has been very interesting to me too. I would not have even thought about looking for a Italian Fighter if I was not pointed to the book called Fighters Over Tunisia. I have been told by many people that this book spacificly states that Lt. Meyer may have been shot down by an MC202. this book is very hard to find not to mention $400 in american currency if I wish to buy it, so i went to the libaray and done a inter-libaray exchange to get the details of the day my uncle was shot down. This may take a few weeks to get.
View user's profileSend private messageFind all posts by 88jimmeyer
Capitano
Generale di Brigata Aerea
Generale di Brigata Aerea

Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Posts: 278
Location: Just far enough away from Chicago.
Reply with quote
Inter-library exchange is one the best kept secrets in the world. Getting books from other libraries other than my own university library was a godsend for writing papers.
View user's profileSend private messageFind all posts by Capitano
stefanuccio
Generale di Brigata Aerea
Generale di Brigata Aerea

Joined: 02 May 2009
Posts: 180
Location: cape town south africa
Reply with quote
ciao stefano
i have been following this very interesting issue for some times but one thing has been puzzling me
according to my research the 6o gruppo 1o stormo composed by 79a and 81a squadriglia the latter being the squadriglia of ten.Cesare Panizza arrived in tunisia in february 1943 precisely 21/2/1943 Sfax and 5/3/1943 Gabes to be part of the line of resistance in the Mareth area
if this is correct it will clash with the date of 15/1/1943 day on which the claim of a kill for anybody of the 81a squadriglia was logged
can you confirm this or otherways?
ciao ciao !
stefano l"africano
View user's profileSend private messageFind all posts by stefanuccio
88jimmeyer
Comandante di Squadriglia
Comandante di Squadriglia

Joined: 25 Feb 2009
Posts: 14
Reply with quote
I have just recieved the the book "Fighters Over Tunisia". All it says is " It is quit possible that that American opponents were actually MC 202's, two of these attacking an escorted formation over Sfax in the early afternoon, claiming one P-38 which fell in the Maknassy-Mezzouana area exploding on impact." These two stories match the letter writen home by Peyton Mathis in Feb/1943 to my Great Grandfather after the loss of my uncle.
View user's profileSend private messageFind all posts by 88jimmeyer
Capitano
Generale di Brigata Aerea
Generale di Brigata Aerea

Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Posts: 278
Location: Just far enough away from Chicago.
Reply with quote
88jimmeyer wrote:
I have just recieved the the book "Fighters Over Tunisia". All it says is " It is quit possible that that American opponents were actually MC 202's, two of these attacking an escorted formation over Sfax in the early afternoon, claiming one P-38 which fell in the Maknassy-Mezzouana area exploding on impact." These two stories match the letter writen home by Peyton Mathis in Feb/1943 to my Great Grandfather after the loss of my uncle.


Is this letter home something personal or is it possible for you tell us more?
View user's profileSend private messageFind all posts by Capitano
stefanuccio
Generale di Brigata Aerea
Generale di Brigata Aerea

Joined: 02 May 2009
Posts: 180
Location: cape town south africa
Reply with quote
hallo
Capitano has a point unless the letter is something really personal it would be important to know some details about this story
ciao
stefano
View user's profileSend private messageFind all posts by stefanuccio
Capitano
Generale di Brigata Aerea
Generale di Brigata Aerea

Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Posts: 278
Location: Just far enough away from Chicago.
Reply with quote
Well, some times I think its just good to tell people about these things. A type of a confession of sorts, (sorry for bad word usage.) After the war my dad's group was sent to Hiroshima for some unexplained reason. He died of cancer in 1972. Coincidence? We'll never know.
View user's profileSend private messageFind all posts by Capitano
88jimmeyer
Comandante di Squadriglia
Comandante di Squadriglia

Joined: 25 Feb 2009
Posts: 14
Reply with quote
Capitano
Stefano,
The letter is not personal. My aunt (Louis' sister) has the letter. I have a copy of the letter that was put in the local newspaper.
My uncle was flying on Lt. Peyton Mathis wing. It gives his personal account of what happened to my uncle but it is lacking some important details. He does not say what kind of fighter or the the area this action took place at, for reasons I don't know. This letter matches the mission report, the information in the book Fighters over Tunisia, the Italian pilot log but minus the positive I.D of the fighter and the location. With help of a family friend in Germany, he is looking for the German mission report. Stefano and his fellow researchers are looking into this mystery. I thought I had all the facts that I needed but until i learned of the info in this book, it has widened the spectrum.
Maybe he left the exact details out to save our family more greif. Louis' brother Francis was also a pilot and he was killed in July/1942 I have been told by many pilots that in most cases that they reported that they would see a chute or thay didn't see them bail out but they had time to bail out so the goverment would clissify them as missing for one year so the next of kin could still keep on collecting thier pay.
For some reason I can't attach things to this form (Im not computer wise). If you with you can PM me with your email address and i can send it to you or, if Stefano you are willing to post it I can send it to you.
Thanks guys

Jim[/img]
View user's profileSend private messageFind all posts by 88jimmeyer
stefanuccio
Generale di Brigata Aerea
Generale di Brigata Aerea

Joined: 02 May 2009
Posts: 180
Location: cape town south africa
Reply with quote
hallo jim
my hart goes to you and your family it must be very painfull after so many years to be unable to conclude this matter.Unfortunately is probably the lack of detailes that is and the passing of many many years that is frustrating the effort of finalising this issue
My father also fought in ww2 he joined the allied and specifically the polish commandos with whom he fought in the battle for Montecassino i have keept all is documentation as veteran of war althoght all of it written in polish i am unable to understand a single word the research about his actions during the italian liberation war have proved very difficult althougth in recent years ww2 research have improved very much everithing is based on specific detailes that somewhere or someone can or is willing to remember
The member of stormomagazine are however excellent people with skill knowledge and goodwill i am sure i can speak for all when i say we will do our best to conclude or at least help to conclude such sad but honorable issue
cordial regards
stefano pecorelli
View user's profileSend private messageFind all posts by stefanuccio
88jimmeyer
Comandante di Squadriglia
Comandante di Squadriglia

Joined: 25 Feb 2009
Posts: 14
Reply with quote
To All,

I do not know when this letter was wrote, it was wrote shortly after my uncle was reported Missing. This was posted in the local newspaper on March 3, 1943.

A letter has been recieved here by Mr and Mrs Frank Meyer concerning the death of thier son Lieut. Louis F. Meyer, former R.A.F. pilot and at the time of being reported "Missing in Action" a member of the United States Army Air Corps.
The letter from Lieut. Peyton S. Mathis Jr, read:"I am enclosing money orders left in my care by your son Louis, to be mailed to you at the firts opportunity if anything happened to him. " Believe me sir, it hurt me deeply to lose louis. We had flown togather very much since he was transferd from the R.A.F. into our squadron and I, as well as all of us had learned to like him exceedingly well and to respect his ability as a pilot. I personaly think he possed courage superior to many pilots that I have flown with.

Letter wrote after March 10, 1943, It reads:

Your letter of March 10 came recently. In conenction with your concern about Louis, let me tell you what I actually saw on the day his plane crashed.
We where returning from enemy territory with our squadron, thinking that there where no German planes around. I happened to look up into the sun when suddenly, I saw an enemy fighter coming down in an attack at Louis and myself from the sun. I yelled over the radio a warning, but no one but myself and Louis saw the fighter.
Louis must have seen it a moment before I did, because he turned his plane over on its back, kicked it into a spin and headed towards the ground. The fighter had fired at us both just before we broke off of the formation. When I saw Louis break into a spin, I turned sharply to try and get behind the German Fighter that was following him down to the ground, but I could not quite get to it. I was following both planes down and yelling at Louis that the German Fighter was following him. Louis' plane kept on spinning down and all the time I thought that he was going to get rid of the enemy Fighter. But Louis' plane kept on spinning, hit the ground and blew up. I got sick and mad and felt like crying. I started after the fighter but he was out of gun range and beating it for home.
I knew if I continued to follow him I would run into more fighters then what I can handle, so I went home.
Everything happened so fast that nobody else in the squadron could not give us any help in time. That fighter attacked us at 25,000 feet and thats when Louis' plane started spinning. I never saw Louis bail out but the more I thought about it later on the more I knew he could have bailed out with out me seeing it.
I have every hope that Louis is still alive, and as I said before, Louis was an superior pilot and would have taken advantage of every opportunity of his high altitude offered him at the time.
"Rest assured that I will notify you immediately if I hear anymore about him".

Capitano and Sefanuccio
I'm glad that you guys wanted to see more. After retyping this, I see that there might be more detail invovled then I once thought. I have allways been reading this as a family member insted of a researcher.

Thanks again

Jim [/b]
View user's profileSend private messageFind all posts by 88jimmeyer
Requesting help finding Italian war records
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
All times are GMT - 7 Hours  
Page 2 of 3  

  
  
 Reply to topic  



Please contact me with any questions or suggestions
webm...@stormomagazine.com