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Sparviero Unit Question
Goku
Pilota

Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 8
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Hi guys, I´m a chilean modeller, my name is Hernán Meza and I´m a fanatic of axis aircraft with special attention on Reggia Aeronautica and Luftwaffe ones.

Actually I´m building an superdetailed SM79 Sparviero, based in old Airfix but using some Italeri´s kit parts; I start that proyect some 12 years ago, and today I decided to finish it.

Here some pics of W.I.P. and two pics of my candidates:

Respect to first pic, can anybody tell to what unit it aircraft belong? BT or AS?, colors?, I hope the second, AS, because I want to do this aircraft on it´s main role.





The interiors was fully scratch build, as the fabrics effects on sides.























Cheers!!! Hernán
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Editor
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Joined: 24 Jul 2003
Posts: 1979
Location: Calgary, AB, CANADA
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Beautiful work so far! Look forward to seeing the completed model and I'll find out what type of unit the plane in the first pic belonged to when I get back home this evening. Thanks for sharing.

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Vince Tassone
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m.lacivita
Comandante di Gruppo
Comandante di Gruppo

Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 60
Location: Pescara, Italy
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Hi Hernan. As for the first pic, the airplane belongs to 36th Stormo. This unit was a BT until 1941, then became AS, if I recall correctly. Given the "two towers" tail emblem, the pic was taken when the Stormo was still employed in level bombing duties. The color was a three tone standard camo, I guess.
As I said, the tail emblem represents the two medieval towers of the city of Bologna, with the motto "soc-1000" (I do not translate, since the meaning is quite...obscene in Bolognese slang...)
The second profile shows a 104th gruppo AS, 253th squadriglia airplane, in experimental camouflage. I think the profile is not that correct, since that scheme was surely used by 252th, I don't know if also 253th did. Anyways, colors seem to be reversed, since the background should be green, with grey splotches.


Last edited by m.lacivita on Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:35 am; edited 1 time in total
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Chris Busbridge
Generale di Brigata Aerea
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Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 227
Location: Kent, UK
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Checking Chris Dunnings 'Courage Alone', 258 Squadriglia was part of 109 Gruppo BT, but goes on to say that it followed the same operational history as 108 Gruppo BT... which became AS on Sept 1st 1941.

Also, it states that 253 Squadriglia was part of 104 Gruppo BT, but this too became AS on May 1st 1942.
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Goku
Pilota

Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 8
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Thanks friends, I can see that according with color pic, the second profile is no the correct so, this B/W pic show the same subject in fly.



With respect to the first squeme of 258th, it is possible that Sparvieros with that camo have used torpedoes?, as I said previously, my target is to build a SM79 in its most successful role. In addition, I think that this squeme is really beautifull, I never seen a SM79 with white cowlings and that intense splotches camo.

Whell, here are some pics with interiors in 90%.

Thanks again and more advances soon.














Cheers!!!
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Gabriele Luciani
Comandante di Stormo
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Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 100
Location: Salento - South Italy
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no works !!! is a incredible work !!! Hoping to help you, I tell you that about S.79 now there is a good book from Ali d'Italia series, the issue no. 28, also in english text; you can see it at the home page of Stormo Very Happy

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Gabriele Luciani
www.modellismosalento.it
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Capitano
Generale di Brigata Aerea
Generale di Brigata Aerea

Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Posts: 278
Location: Just far enough away from Chicago.
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Hernán,

Welcome and nice work so far. Your work looks solid and I can't wait to see more of it. Glad you joined our community.

¿En Chile, es dicho español allí? Digo un pequeño español.

Adios,

Paul
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D520
Generale di Divisone Aerea
Generale di Divisone Aerea

Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 437
Location: St Sever. landes
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Hernan. You have done an outstanding work on your sparviero! Having done the same in 1/48th I can only imagine how difficult it can be in a smaller scale. So if you go for an AS version, you must check if the plane is carrying the Alfa 128 engines, supplementary internal tank and no gondola MG. Propellers spinners are also different on the Alfa 128. Keep up the beautiful job! Ciao, jean. Very Happy Very Happy
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Goku
Pilota

Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 8
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Thanks all for comments!!!

Gabriele: I have two ones, exellent publications and good photo base for details, versions and scale drawings.

Capitano. Si señor, en Chile hablamos español, de bases tan latinas como el italiano; is for me an honor to can participate on that fine forum, thanks.

D520: thanks mate for that info, so some minutes ago I check you say, and you are rigth!!!, this is an extract from http://www.ams.vr.it/dat/Imm_Aero.htm ...


S. 79 - 253a Squadriglia, 104° Gruppo Aerosiluranti - Gadurrà (Rodi) 1943. The represented airplane was equipped with Alpha 128 engines purposely conceived in order to improve the performances at a low altitude, typical employment of the speciality. Moreover it evidences one interesting experimental camouflage found until today only on aircrafts of the 104th Gruppo.

well, that aircraft used the Alfa 128, and checking the pic (see B/W pic above), in efect the gondola remain closed; spinners must be rebuilded due to Italeri and Airfix don´t include that type.

So, I can´t decide if I will represent 253th AS Sparviero or 258th (AS or BT?) one, this one is very atractive subject with its white cowlings and two medieval towers but, was this aircraft in AS missions?

Thanks and Cheers!!!, Hernán Wink
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Capitano
Generale di Brigata Aerea
Generale di Brigata Aerea

Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Posts: 278
Location: Just far enough away from Chicago.
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Hernán,

I thought Chileans spoke Spanish but wasn't sure. I didn't want to look like an idiot before getting my facts straight. I remember from my college Spanish language course that several South American countries speak a language other than Spanish. If I remember right Brazil speaks Portuguese. Any way, glad to have you here.

.
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Stefano
Generale di Brigata Aerea
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Joined: 12 Nov 2006
Posts: 166
Location: Padua, Italy
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Goku,

you're doing an amazing work. It's hard to believe that's a '72-scaled!
To add something to m.lacivita and Chris info, I can tell you that 258-6 is depicted probably on March-April 1941, when the 36° Stormo (108° and 109° Gruppo) was at its home base at Bologna for a period of rest after the duty tour against Malta. You can see the typical Po river valley landscape, where Bologna is. The cowlings weren't white, but yellow FS33655, which was officially applied in that period. In late Spring, the unit passed to AS role, but on SIAI S.84. It was back on S.79 later, when those aircraft proved unsatisfactory. So, the aircraft you mean was still in the bomber role.
Also, as my friend D520 stated, 253-5 wore the Alfa 128 engines. 104° Gruppo went to the Aegean on July 1942, with its aircraft painted in that way still in its home base at Pisa. The original Alfa 126 engines had gradually been replaced in the following months. But that's not the only modifications those aircraft had: in order to spare weight and increase operational range, in facts, by 1942 the AS Sparvieri dismantled the bomb aiming and release devices (that you have made in your model) and placed an additional fuel tank in the bomb bay, and an armour was placed behind each pilots' seat, plus other minor changes. So, unless you represent an early AS aircraft, you sadly should scrap and scratchbuild those details. Moreover, all AS aircraft had an aiming device for torpedo release, behind the middle of windscreen or offset to port, where's the first pilot seat.
Take a look to my article dealing Buscaglia's aircraft in this site for more details.
Of course, I think we all can answer to your question and info request.
Anyhow, again, an excellent work. Wink

Stefano
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Goku
Pilota

Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 8
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Thanks Stefano, I´ve considered the extra fuel tank for torpedoe version and an aiming device for torpedo release, too, but not the extra armor plate behind pilots ... have you some pics of them? ... another point not considered on my model, is the Silurificio Italiano torpedoe, on Ali d´Italia appears the 253-8 with that kind of torpedoe wich have a different kind of horizontal stabilizer, have you more info or images about this torpedoe type?

Thank in advance and more pics of my model soon, Cheers!!!
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GAJouette
Generale di Divisone Aerea
Generale di Divisone Aerea

Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 394
Location: Southern U.S
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Hernan,
Amazing craftsmanship on your Sparviero project.I'm very much impressed with all the details packed inside such small scale package.It's hard to imagine it's all based on the old Airfix too.Pure artistry,wow.Please keep us posted as to your progress and Welcome to Stormo.
Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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Stefano
Generale di Brigata Aerea
Generale di Brigata Aerea

Joined: 12 Nov 2006
Posts: 166
Location: Padua, Italy
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The only images of pilots armours I've found show an egg-shaped plate for the back with a trapezoidal one to protect the head. No technical drawings exist, as far as I know, as usually those armour were placed by units personnel. I don't know how this device was fixed to the airframe.



The pilot at left is Ten. Martino Aichner, who sunk cruiser HMS Bedouin.
Here the armour is barely visible behind flight engineer instrument panel:



I have in progress an article dealing of Italian aerial torpedoes, to be published in this site. So, I can anticipate you some info.
The SI torpedo was shorter than Whitehead (5.25 m versus 5.46 m). Its fins had a slightly different shape and perhaps had a slightly wider span (some 2 or 3 cm). Typically, the top fin was shorter.



The detachable fin was different than W, as the vertical fins were moved to the tips of the horizontal fin. The latter, was itself wider than W fin. In the image, the two cords were tested by Buscaglia to block fin vibrations; the problem was soon solved by increasing the diameter of copper rods which fixed the fin to the torpedo, so 104° Gruppo didn't use them.



104° Gruppo used both types of torpedoes. A way to identify the aircraft set to wear the SI is to look for the carved plate in the rear of the rack: it was used only with Whiteheads, to prevent propeller rotation due to airstream. The SI had the propeller locked by two safety pins linked via two cords to the rack: once it was released, the pins jumped and unlocked the propeller. So, the carved plate was unnecessary and was removed.



Stefano

Edit 4 april: the Whitehead torpedo length was wrong


Last edited by Stefano on Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Goku
Pilota

Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 8
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WOW!!!!!!!!!!! Stefano: many thanks for help me, it is really a great step in order to reach a good replica of this beautiful plane; you are right, the pilot´s armor plate are very complicated to understand so, I think that I will not include them; The SI torpedoe look clare and very well defined, there are enouth info for build a good one in 1/72.

Thanks a lot, and more w.i.p. soon.

Regards, Hernan
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Sparviero Unit Question
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