VIDEOS: Breda-Zappata B.Z.308 Airliner

STORMO! History Article updates
Post Reply
Editor
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 1606
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2003 3:53 pm
Location: Calgary, AB, CANADA
Contact:

VIDEOS: Breda-Zappata B.Z.308 Airliner

Post by Editor » Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:17 am

Here's a new and interesting video of the Breda-Zappata B.Z.308 Airliner with original footage later on in the video:

Breda-Zappata B.Z.308 Airliner

The Breda-Zappata B.Z.308 was an Italian four-engined airliner produced by Breda. The aircraft designer Filippo Zappata (who designed the CANT Z.1007) developed a four-engined civil transport for operation over both European and transatlantic routes. Construction of the Breda-Zappata B.Z.308 was started during 1946 at Breda's Sesto San Giovanni works. The allied control commission halted the work, which was not resumed until January 1947. Further delays in the delivery of Bristol Centaurus engines delayed the first flight, which was on 27 August 1948, piloted by Mario Stoppani.
Vince Tassone

User avatar
RetiredInKalifornia
Generale di Brigata Aerea
Generale di Brigata Aerea
Posts: 233
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:34 pm

Monitor Grabs Of B.Z.308 Appearing In "Roman Holiday" (1953)

Post by RetiredInKalifornia » Sat Jan 25, 2020 2:42 pm

Image

Image

Image

Image
Image
Original Art Rendered 1997

Editor
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 1606
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2003 3:53 pm
Location: Calgary, AB, CANADA
Contact:

Re: VIDEOS: Breda-Zappata B.Z.308 Airliner

Post by Editor » Sat Jan 25, 2020 7:20 pm

A great plane with a sad history both for Italy's civil transport industry and Italian aviation in general. All that know-how lost.
Vince Tassone

User avatar
RetiredInKalifornia
Generale di Brigata Aerea
Generale di Brigata Aerea
Posts: 233
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:34 pm

Indeed...

Post by RetiredInKalifornia » Sun Jan 26, 2020 2:45 pm

Editor wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 7:20 pm
A great plane with a sad history both for Italy's civil transport industry and Italian aviation in general. All that know-how lost.
...the Italian Lockheed Constellation, better looking IMHO, five-bladed props, heavier, more complicated pitch control though think they'd have less vibration than four-bladers.
Image
Original Art Rendered 1997

Editor
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 1606
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2003 3:53 pm
Location: Calgary, AB, CANADA
Contact:

Re: VIDEOS: Breda-Zappata B.Z.308 Airliner

Post by Editor » Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:06 pm

I think it's more proper to say that the Lockheed Constellation was the American B.Z.308, in fact the BZ.308 was conceived in 1942, one full year ahead of the Lockheed Constellation and design continued right through the war. The design was derived from the CANTIERI RIUNITI DELL'ADRIATICO CANT Z.511. The plane should have flown in 1946 at the latest and would have flown sooner if not for WWII. It would have been a rival to the DC6 and Constellation. What I was referring to was that because of the Marshall plan Breda was forced (by the US) to stop further work on this plane despite having received orders from India, Persia/Iran and Argentina. The Missouri class battleships were inspired by the Littorio class battleships and the Spitfire can trace its origins, ironically for the Germans and the Italians, to the Macchi M.39 In this sense, the Italians helped the British win WWII, although that distinction goes to the US and USSR, who won WWII for the British.
Vince Tassone

User avatar
Vincent Biondi
Generale di Divisone Aerea
Generale di Divisone Aerea
Posts: 375
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:48 am
Location: Niagara On The Lake, On. Canada

Re: VIDEOS: Breda-Zappata B.Z.308 Airliner

Post by Vincent Biondi » Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:12 am

Hello All,
If you look at the period between 1930 and 1939, you will find that a number of Italian aircraft engineers either worked partly in the US or had some type of working experience with the likes of Seversky, Boeing, Budd, Waco aircraft, American Aeronautical Corp.
Companies like Breda, Piaggio and Reggiane co operated with these Americn Companies. Engineers with the likes of Longhi, Casiraghi and Bossi to name a few.
Also, little known fact is that at one point Boeing had made a deal with Breda to build the Boeing 307 Stratoliner in Italy during 1939, but the winds of war pevented that.
So, it is not surprising that the BZ308 looked a lot like the Constellation!
To this day, the jury is still out as to the story that Roberto Longhi went to North American aircraft after WW2 to work there and designed the F86 Sabre, which looked a lot like the RE 2007!!

Editor
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 1606
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2003 3:53 pm
Location: Calgary, AB, CANADA
Contact:

Re: VIDEOS: Breda-Zappata B.Z.308 Airliner

Post by Editor » Sat Feb 01, 2020 6:07 pm

1) It's impossible that Zappata knew or was aware of the Lockheed Constellation since he was in Italy years before the Constellation got off the drawing board, and Italy had been at war with the US before the Constellation was built
2) There's no way Zappata could have known about the Constellation's design given Lockheed/Skunkworks (1943) fame for super-secretive highly-classified projects, for example the British didn't know about the P-38 until it showed up
3) The B.Z.308 was conceived before the Constellation

Except for the Re.2000, which was influenced by the Seversky P.38 - internally the Re.2000 was a completely different plane - there were no cases of Italian designs that were copied - this is wartime propaganda.

The Re.2007 story actually started in the British press and when questioned Longhi confirmed its existence and partial construction in 1944 and the eventual confiscation of the plane by the British and its return to the UK for evaluation. The story was fueled by design-plans that were also seized and eventually obtained by the British Press - the details we have about the Re.2007 today have their origins in Britain, not Italy. Some recent (Italian) author(s) have concluded the Re.2007 never existed and for but a British report and the defection of Agostini, we probably would never have known about the G.55 that was obtained by the British in March 1945. There was no reason for Longhi, a successful engineer to say the Re.2007 existed, if it hadn't.
Vince Tassone

User avatar
Vincent Biondi
Generale di Divisone Aerea
Generale di Divisone Aerea
Posts: 375
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:48 am
Location: Niagara On The Lake, On. Canada

Re: VIDEOS: Breda-Zappata B.Z.308 Airliner

Post by Vincent Biondi » Sat Feb 01, 2020 8:07 pm

The Breda and the Lockheed both look almost identical. Who knows, maybe there might have been some industrial espionage going on between the two companies!

Editor
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 1606
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2003 3:53 pm
Location: Calgary, AB, CANADA
Contact:

Re: VIDEOS: Breda-Zappata B.Z.308 Airliner

Post by Editor » Sat Feb 01, 2020 8:48 pm

The design was derived from the CANT Z.511.
Vince Tassone

User avatar
RetiredInKalifornia
Generale di Brigata Aerea
Generale di Brigata Aerea
Posts: 233
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:34 pm

Interesting...

Post by RetiredInKalifornia » Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:58 pm

Editor wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 8:48 pm
The design was derived from the CANT Z.511.
...love to see/buy 1/72 scale kit of it, not holding my breath, just hoping somebody gets the Legato Z.1018 molds, reissues day bomber variant for sure!
Image
Original Art Rendered 1997

Editor
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 1606
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2003 3:53 pm
Location: Calgary, AB, CANADA
Contact:

Re: Interesting...

Post by Editor » Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:56 pm

RetiredInKalifornia wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:58 pm
Editor wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 8:48 pm
The design was derived from the CANT Z.511.
...love to see/buy 1/72 scale kit of it, not holding my breath, just hoping somebody gets the Legato Z.1018 molds, reissues day bomber variant for sure!
I was thinking the same thing but to offer one under the Stormo brand.
Vince Tassone

User avatar
RetiredInKalifornia
Generale di Brigata Aerea
Generale di Brigata Aerea
Posts: 233
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:34 pm

Do You Mean The Z.1018?!

Post by RetiredInKalifornia » Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:01 pm

Editor wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:56 pm
RetiredInKalifornia wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:58 pm
Editor wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 8:48 pm
The design was derived from the CANT Z.511.
...love to see/buy 1/72 scale kit of it, not holding my breath, just hoping somebody gets the Legato Z.1018 molds, reissues day bomber variant for sure!
I was thinking the same thing but to offer one under the Stormo brand.
Can you do that?! I'd DIE to get just one Z.1018 kit day bomber kit, wouldn't mind having night fighter version as well!

The 1/72 scale FLY Models resin Caproni Ca.101 kit looks good, only wish they'd tool & release Ca.111 & 133 kits so can complete the 101, 111, 133 series in Regia Aeronautica Italia liveries.

They're loads of other "Italians" I'd love to get 1/72 scale kits for, AUT.18 variants for openers, none of the BroPlan vacuforms are available. Am not holding breath on seeing any before December 31, 2022 when will retire from modeling, building the hoard of WWII Luftwaffe & Amee de l'Air Battle of France kits I've got in stock will take good chunk of 2021, all of 2022 to do. If any new "Italians" are released must horn them in between these kit builds, gotta end this last-ever kit building run of mine that began in 2004 before Bad Fate hits :surprised: :wtf: :shock: superstitious indeed I am!
Image
Original Art Rendered 1997

Editor
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 1606
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2003 3:53 pm
Location: Calgary, AB, CANADA
Contact:

Re: Do You Mean The Z.1018?!

Post by Editor » Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:20 am

RetiredInKalifornia wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:01 pm
Editor wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:56 pm
RetiredInKalifornia wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:58 pm
...love to see/buy 1/72 scale kit of it, not holding my breath, just hoping somebody gets the Legato Z.1018 molds, reissues day bomber variant for sure!
I was thinking the same thing but to offer one under the Stormo brand.
Can you do that?! I'd DIE to get just one Z.1018 kit day bomber kit, wouldn't mind having night fighter version as well!
yes and I need the detailed plans to do it and it would be be plastic. Its a huge time commitment.
Vince Tassone

Post Reply