Royal Navy Submarine URGE sunk by CR42

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Vincent Biondi
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Royal Navy Submarine URGE sunk by CR42

Post by Vincent Biondi » Sun May 25, 2008 9:59 pm

Hello All,
I have been doing some research on Royal Navy Submarines lost to Italian Navy surface ships and I came across something very interesting.
The RN HMS URGE was thought to have been sunk by the Italian Torpedo boat, PEGASO, when in fact it is now known that it was sunk by a CR42, on April 29, 1942.

Here is an explanation on how it was sunk, taken from the following web site. http://home.cogeco.ca/~gchalcraft/sm/page29.html

.....Sailed from Malta 27 Apr 42, on passage to Alexandria at the time of the withdrawal of the 10th Submarine Flotilla, but failed to arrive as expected on 6 May. On 29 April she had attacked the Italian sailing vessel San Giusto off Ras Hilal: in the immediate area was a small convoy of three German MFPs, escorted by an Italian Cr.42 biplane. As the submarine was engaged in the attack against the sailing ship, she was dive-bombed and sunk by the plane. For some time, the theory was that she had been sunk by the Torpedo Boat Pegaso. But that Urge was sunk by the escorting biplane has been confirmed by witnesses on board the MFPs. Lost with all hands......

How can one find out who the pilot or Gruppo was that sunk the ship?
Any thoughts?
Vincent.

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Post by Editor » Tue May 27, 2008 2:35 pm

Thanks Vince, an interesting topic. We certainly don't hear much about these types of successes/ What size bombs did the CR.42 carry ?
Vince Tassone

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Post by Vincent Biondi » Tue May 27, 2008 5:15 pm

Hi Vince,
According to my research, the CR42 Assalto version, could carry two 220 lb bombs under each wing, for a total of 440 lbs or 200 kgs, so we must assume that the aircraft that sank the HMS URGE, was carrying this load.
I have added a link that describes all the different types of CR42s flown by the RA and their bomb loads.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~fbonne/warbirds/w ... tcr42.html

Vincent

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Post by Ludovico Slongo » Tue Dec 30, 2008 2:03 pm

dear Vincent,
according to my sources the "Urge" was sunk by seven CR 42s of 153a Squadriglia 3° Gruppo Autonomo. According to some sources this was on the 28th of April, according with others on the 30th. However I don't have the names of the pilots involved because the war diary of 3° Gruppo Aut. is lacking for 1942 so it wasn't possible to read it.
Regarding the anti-subarine weapons of the CR 42s of 3° Gruppo I can only tell you that at the end of 1941 -according to the war diary of the unit for that year- they carried fifty kilos " bombe torpedini" also called 50T. Apparently two for each plane, one under each lower wing. BTW this was a very common bomb load for the fighter-bomber CR 42s.
Ciao
Ludovico

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Post by Vincent Biondi » Wed Dec 31, 2008 1:11 am

Hello Ludovigo,
Thanks for the info on the CR42 and the Urge.
I wonder if the Ufficio Storico would have the info on the seven pilots from the 153rd Sq, 3 Gruppo.
BTW, Congratulations on the new CR42 book with Hakan! He is a great guy and his web site is so good and informative. You have teamed up with the right person!
I am looking forward to getting it.
Buon Anno,
Vincent.

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Ludovico Slongo
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Post by Ludovico Slongo » Wed Dec 31, 2008 2:14 am

Dear Vincent,
during my (not frequent) visits at the Archive of the historical office of the Italian Air force, I always try to copy some documents for personal use in present or future researches. When I went for the War Diary of 3° Gruppo I could find only the documents of 1941 and 1940. The year 1942 was lacking. However it is always possible that the War Diary of 153a Squadriglia still survives ( this I don't know for sure) and there it will be possible to find the details you are looking for.
However, inside an old Italian book on air war over North Africa, written by two serious researchers: Alberto Borgiotti and Cesare Gori it is possible to read that the commander of the Italian formation that day was Tenente Mancini. Higly likely Massimino Mancini, born on 17 July 1914 and later promoted Capitano on March 1943. He was killed on July the 1st 1944 while flying in an ANR Messerschmitt Bf 109 G6 of II° Gruppo against P-47 of 85th FG. Ciao and happy new year to you.

Ludovico

P.S.
Hakan is even better than you imagine!

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Vincent Biondi
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Post by Vincent Biondi » Wed Dec 31, 2008 11:21 am

Hi Ludovigo,
Thanks again for the update.
Some day when I get to Rome, I would like to go to the Ufficio Storico.
Buon Anno,
Vincent.

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Re:

Post by cathiss40 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:31 pm

Vincent Biondi wrote:
Tue May 27, 2008 5:15 pm
Hi Vince,
According to my research, the CR42 Assalto version, could carry two 220 lb bombs under each wing, for a total of 440 lbs or 200 kgs Rachat de crédit plus trésorerie, so we must assume that the aircraft that sank the HMS URGE, was carrying this load.
I have added a link that describes all the different types of CR42s flown by the RA and their bomb loads.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~fbonne/warbirds/w ... tcr42.html

Vincent
You teach me a lot here on the forum. Thank you very much !

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