CZ 1007 In Belgium

Mike Powell · Post by **Mike Powell** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:35 am

Could someone please comment on the scheme of these aircraft deployed against England? Any liklihood that the upper surface base color was a green rather than Giallo Mimetico 3? Also, I've read that the yellow theater mark (fuselage band) was likely a Luftwaffe temporary use yellow, not a chrome yellow. Thoughts on that as well?

Thanks in advance,

Mike Powell

P.S. Does anyone have a photo reference for these particular aircraft?

Rick · Post by **Rick** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:57 am

Five Cant Z1007 bis were used by the RA in Belgium, belonging to 172° Squadriglia (captain Vassallo); I know two MM, i.e. MM 22377 and MM 22144 were lost during the return to Italy near Frankfurt. I know 3 b/w photos of such Cant Z but they show the characteristic Cant camouflage and no yellow band is visible; what is visible are the white fasces on black background on the wings lower surfaces.

The photos I refer to are published in the book Regia Areonautica- periodo prebellico e fronti occidentali 1975
Riccardo

Stefano · Post by **Stefano** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 4:12 pm

Here are the images of yellow-banded ‘1007s in Belgium (source: Avions no. 79)

The paint was given by Luftwaffe and was RLM 27 (FS33655); it was a lemon yellow and, lacking red component of the classic chrome yellow FS33538, it appears very light in b/w photos. See also “Cant Z 1007 and Macchi 200 camouflage questions” in this Forum. It seems the band was deleted before return to Italy.

About the camo pattern, the aircraft at right surely wore the C10A scheme, but other aircraft could wore the C11. Colour photo and relics of other unit’s aircraft confirms that colours were Verde Mimetico 3 and Marrone Mimetico 53193 mottles over Giallo Mimetico 3 background. The Verde was sprayed over the Marrone, just leaving some edge of it. The b/w tone contrast suggests there was no green-over-green pattern in CAI aircraft. Undersides were obviously Grigio Mimetico. Front faces of propeller blades were light blue; rear faces anti-glare black.

Here are other images (source: Storia Militare no. 180 and the book mentioned by Rick)

Aircraft were still without the band. Both had the C10A scheme. The second was MM 22377, possibly 172-2 (the red individual no. is barely visible). Note that CANT logo on nose and MM stencil on fin were actually pale blue, not yellow as in most decals. Badge is a flying swan ridden by two elves, it was on both sides, always facing forward.

Since Ali d’Italia no. 18 is sadly OOP, I think I can post this excellent profile by Angelo Brioschi.

Historical note: five 1007s were sent to the Channel front for photo recon purpose, but, apart from two diverting actions, they saw no operative duty.

Here are some images of the camera and its installation (from Aerofan 4/83). Note that rectangular window is offset to starboard. The correct placement is marked in red.

A final note: I’ve seen in several contests many models of CZ.1007 with Verde Anticorrosione (light green) interiors. Don’t believe that interiors were light green. CANT aircraft were wooden-made and had no need of anti-corrosion primer. All interiors were light grey.

Best wishes
Stefano

Mike Powell · Post by **Mike Powell** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 11:39 am

Rick and Stefano.

Thank you both. Your information, combined with that I have now gleaned from articles and other posts on this site, have been most helpful. I have two more questions;

1- is anyone aware of a 1:72 decal for the Cant logo in blue as Stefano mentions? I have the Skymodels sheet which provides it in yellow. I know tauro offers a sheet including 1007's but i can not tell if this even has the logo.

2. in the left hand photo of the 1007's in Belgium which Stefano posted, the aircraft's finish has a dark band from in front of the windscreen and back along the fuselage above the wing root. I assume this is only shadow, but the upper edge of this band appears so sharply defined, I wonder if others might think it to be a difference in the paint finish?

Thanks again, and to Stefano especially for the photos which tell so much.

Yours,

Mike Powell

Chris Busbridge · Post by **Chris Busbridge** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 12:56 am

Tauro sheet 72-519 has the Cant logo (16 in all) but are printed white!

The plans shown in the post above are also in the Ali d'Italia Z1007 book, which has a brief write up on the Supermodel kit. To quote a passage from it....

"The size of both the engines and cowlings are grossly exaggerated, with severe repercussions of the entire forward fuselage section. These repercussions extend as far back as the cockpit, which in turn was covered by a rather dubious canopy..."

Unfortunately the Falcon vacform canopy does not correct this. The diameter of the cowlings should be about 19mm.

Mike Powell · Post by **Mike Powell** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 4:47 am

I took a fresh look at the photos from Stefano this morning and realized the question I raised about the different shade of the aircraft's finish was due to a tarp in place on the upper fuselage.

Yours,

Mike Powell

Rick · Post by **Rick** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 12:47 pm

Hi Mike
In the 70s the firm E.S.C.I. printed a decal sheet with the 172° Squadriglia badge; this sheet is no longer available from many years, but I have two copies of the badge; tomorrow I shall insert an image of E.S.C.I. badge decal so you will see it and will tell me if you are interested; in case you will provide me your address and I shall send it to you by normal mail
Riccardo

Rick · Post by **Rick** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 12:58 pm

I was faster than I could suppose, here is the badge I have

Riccardo

Mike Powell · Post by **Mike Powell** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:12 pm

Chris,

Thanks for the comments. I measured the Supermodel cowlings and found them to be very close to 19 mm, ignoring the molded open cowl flaps. Just laying the SM fuselage up against Richard J Caruna's drawings in Scale Modeller International, volume 11 issue 3, with things aligned at the rudder post, I see that the model fuselage is about the same length at the turret as the plan, but the model's canopy back edge is about 3 mm further aft than the plan, with the shortage increasing to about 4 mm in total at the aft edge of the cowl flap. this is probably close enough to satisfy me. I intend to try comparing to the fuselage plan Stefano posted during the next few days.

Does anyone know if Mr. Caruana is still preparing articles. He disappeared from SAMI and I miss his work greatly.

Rick,

Thanks for the post of the badge. I do have that ESCI sheet in my old, old box. Not sure how it would react to water. I recently picked up SkyModels 72-019 Italian Bombers which has the badge though with a darker blue background than ESCI and it also seems darker than the actual badge shown in Stefano's photo. Also most unfortunately, SkyModels has chosen yellow for the Cant logo on this sheet.

Yours,

Mike Powell

Stefano · Post by **Stefano** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:48 pm

Mike,
I dont' know any other decal sheet where the CANT logo is correctly light blue. I only can suggest you to scan and print your own decal, using Tauro logo as background...
Here is an original colour photo from ADI 18 rear cover:

Apart from the blue of logo and propeller blades, please note the differences between the camo pattern of the foreground aircraft (CANT-built) with a classic C10A scheme, and the second one (IMAM-built) with the Marrone spots centred in Giallo mottles. This particular pattern hasn't been stressed by CMPR book, and appears similar to C8. Note also chrome yellow (Giallo Cromo) cowlings, and the open door in the background, which shows light grey interiors.

Rick,
the image you posted brought me back of some thirty years...

Stefano

Rick · Post by **Rick** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:40 am

Longer than 30 years Stefano, I bought it in 1972; I have also some other E.S.C.I. sheets and also the ITALAREI sheets
On January 15th I shall be 62 years old!
Ciao
Riccardo

Stefano · Post by **Stefano** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:24 pm

In 1972 I was thirteen; perhaps I bought it a couple of years later, but I clearly remember that the decal film was yellowish yet at time! Another recall: a notice on the ESCI profile sheet said that, collecting all the serie, ones could have a "magnifico" booklet of profiles at last...
It's model archeology, yet it seems to me just a few weeks have passed.

Ciao,

Stefano

Mike Powell · Post by **Mike Powell** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:43 pm

In 1965 I was 20 and living in Los Angeles, California. At a small neighborhood hobby shop I found HisAirDec 1:72 decals. If I recall correctly, the line included markings for a Finnish Bf 109. These were the first after market accessories for the hobby I was aware of. It seems ABT decals from France appeared here in the United States not too long after that.

Yours,

Mike Powell

Stefano · Post by **Stefano** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 10:55 am

Although late, I've found this interesting image in Nicola Malizia's L'Aeronautica Militare Italiana in 645 foto:

It's aircraft 172-4, whose mm seems to be 22343 or 22348. The yellow band has not been still painted.

Stefano

D520 · Post by **D520** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:19 pm

Rick and Stefano, you both do my heart good as you bet I own the same material for my references, and I am on my way to build another CANT, notturno version with the hedgerow type exhausts, as I sold my Alpha flight model. Your help will be precious, stay tuned, ciao, jean.